Chapter 5 — Interviews

National schools

In general interviewees did not speak to their parents about what was happening. Most of them said that they thought their parents would not believe them. In some cases where the child did tell the parents what happened they were disbelieved and punished for speaking ill of the teacher.

There were some assertions that the activities of some Brothers and some visiting clergymen were known to the management and teachers in particular schools. Evasive action was taken to try to prevent children being alone with particular priests or Brothers. In one instance an interviewee reported that schools would be rung ahead to warn them that a particular priest was coming and the children would be prevented from being alone with them.

Where sexual abuse went beyond touching and inappropriate fondling, it was conducted in secret and with the threat of violence if the activity was disclosed.

What was the most significant element of the reports of sexual abuse of children who were attending day schools was the helplessness and powerlessness and isolation they felt. Children were not listened to and not believed. Adults who saw what was happening ignored it and instead of confronting the abuser they sought to minimise the contact with children. This was totally ineffectual as the abuser was usually able to devise means of singling children out and accessing them alone.

The impact of sexual abuse on the adult lives of victims varied with the individual, but a number of significant responses did emerge. In general, men who had experienced sexual abuse at the hands of religious Brothers or priests reported that they had no religion or no respect for religion. Interviewees were in general extremely damaged by what had occurred. Many of them reported feelings of great anger and hurt, depression and other psychological illnesses, drug and drink addiction and an inability to form relationships in adult life. Many wanted to see the abuser named and punished for what had occurred and were anxious to establish whether other children had suffered in the same way that they had. Many victims carried the humiliation, embarrassment and fear throughout adulthood.

Female interviewees reported physical abuse by nuns, female lay teachers and male lay teachers. Although there were individual reports of extreme and excessive violence, in general female interviewees spoke of physical punishment as being more pervasive than extreme. Complainants recalled an atmosphere of constant fear in some classrooms with leathers, canes, rulers and other implements such as chair legs being used.

Punishment was administered for failure at lessons and for minor infractions and was reported as being disproportionate and unpredictable.

A small number of interviewees reported physical abuse at the hands of male teachers, which was excessive and dangerous. Very small children were subjected to kicks and punches by male teachers, which could have caused serious injury.

Boys who attended girls’ schools up to the age of seven or eight reported a less harsh regime than that which operated in boys’ national schools, although individual teachers, lay and religious, were identified as being cruel and vindictive.

Where girls reported physical abuse to their parents, there tended to be a more positive reaction. One interviewee recalled that her father confronted a nun who had beaten her with a bamboo cane and she was not beaten again. She said that she would have told her father sooner if she had known what the outcome would have been.

Many interviewees recalled the intense fear they felt whilst in an abusive class situation. One recalled feeling sick every morning at the prospect of the day ahead and another recalled begging her mother not to send her to school. The fear was not just of the prospect of being beaten themselves but the horror of watching other children being beaten. What was striking in the case of female interviewees was how many of them were subjected to severe punishments with sticks and straps when they were little more than babies.

Interviewees reported that the impact of the physical abuse experienced in national schools stayed with them into adulthood. It impacted on their ability to learn and on their attitude to school generally. It gave them low self-esteem and poor self-confidence and many felt that it impaired their ability to succeed in later life.

Three female interviewees reported sexual abuse by male teachers whilst in national school. They were aged between five and eight when the abuse began and it involved invasive touching and kissing. All three complainants reported feeling embarrassed and ashamed but they did not tell their parents at the time. They suffered severe after effects of the abuse, including nervous breakdown, eating disorders, nightmares and low self-esteem.

Although interviewees reported psychological and emotional effects from physical or sexual abuse, children in national schools were less vulnerable to emotional abuse than those in institutional care. Three interviewees specifically complained of emotional abuse whilst in national school, although many did refer to emotionally abusive attitudes and practices in schools generally. In particular, children were mocked or jeered because of their family backgrounds, or because of poverty. Many reported being humiliated or verbally abused in the course of physical punishment. For most interviewees, the emotional scars they carried into adulthood were because of the frightening atmosphere in classrooms, the feeling of anger and helplessness in the face of abusive teachers and the apparent indifference of adults to the plight of children left at the mercy of harsh and irrational teachers. Some interviewees mentioned feeling let down by parents who knew what was happening but did not try to prevent it.

Not all schools were abusive and the people who came to the Commission were those who had had particularly unhappy experiences. Many were anxious to point out that not all nuns, Brothers or lay teachers were bad, and that many were good and kind teachers.