Chapter 5 — Interviews

National schools

Boys who attended girls’ schools up to the age of seven or eight reported a less harsh regime than that which operated in boys’ national schools, although individual teachers, lay and religious, were identified as being cruel and vindictive.

Where girls reported physical abuse to their parents, there tended to be a more positive reaction. One interviewee recalled that her father confronted a nun who had beaten her with a bamboo cane and she was not beaten again. She said that she would have told her father sooner if she had known what the outcome would have been.

Many interviewees recalled the intense fear they felt whilst in an abusive class situation. One recalled feeling sick every morning at the prospect of the day ahead and another recalled begging her mother not to send her to school. The fear was not just of the prospect of being beaten themselves but the horror of watching other children being beaten. What was striking in the case of female interviewees was how many of them were subjected to severe punishments with sticks and straps when they were little more than babies.

Interviewees reported that the impact of the physical abuse experienced in national schools stayed with them into adulthood. It impacted on their ability to learn and on their attitude to school generally. It gave them low self-esteem and poor self-confidence and many felt that it impaired their ability to succeed in later life.

Three female interviewees reported sexual abuse by male teachers whilst in national school. They were aged between five and eight when the abuse began and it involved invasive touching and kissing. All three complainants reported feeling embarrassed and ashamed but they did not tell their parents at the time. They suffered severe after effects of the abuse, including nervous breakdown, eating disorders, nightmares and low self-esteem.

Although interviewees reported psychological and emotional effects from physical or sexual abuse, children in national schools were less vulnerable to emotional abuse than those in institutional care. Three interviewees specifically complained of emotional abuse whilst in national school, although many did refer to emotionally abusive attitudes and practices in schools generally. In particular, children were mocked or jeered because of their family backgrounds, or because of poverty. Many reported being humiliated or verbally abused in the course of physical punishment. For most interviewees, the emotional scars they carried into adulthood were because of the frightening atmosphere in classrooms, the feeling of anger and helplessness in the face of abusive teachers and the apparent indifference of adults to the plight of children left at the mercy of harsh and irrational teachers. Some interviewees mentioned feeling let down by parents who knew what was happening but did not try to prevent it.

Not all schools were abusive and the people who came to the Commission were those who had had particularly unhappy experiences. Many were anxious to point out that not all nuns, Brothers or lay teachers were bad, and that many were good and kind teachers.

All interviewees were asked whether they were interested in reconciliation but the vast majority said they were not. For many the hatred they felt for the teacher who had mistreated them was still quite real and they did not think they would be able to forgive the perpetrator.

Children’s home

Three complainants were interviewed in relation to a children’s home and each had distinct and individual experiences. One alleged corporal punishment was used regularly, two alleged serious sexual abuse by different lay staff and one of these also alleged lack of supervision by care staff which led to him being sexually abused by a relative who visited him. The complainant implied that his abuser had easy access to him, stating that there were no gates or cameras in the home. This complainant notified staff of the abuse but they did not take any action.

Mother and baby homes

There were two complainants from mother and baby homes, who had given birth to children there whilst under 18 years of age. They both described a regimented ‘prison-like’ atmosphere, where they were made to wear uniforms and punished for talking and laughing. They further described how both pre- and post-natal care was non-existent. They described suffering humiliation at the hands of the nuns who were both verbally and physically abusive; one interviewee described being hit on the back of the legs with a leather strap. They described how they were emotionally traumatised during their time in the home.

A third complainant recalled her time spent in the home as a young child. She was neglected and claimed she was left for long periods alone in a cot and consequently suffered delayed development.

Private schools

In relation to the complaints against private schools there were two interviewees. Both complained of sexual abuse; one complainant described ongoing sexual abuse by a priest on staff for a period of four years. This complainant further stated that other boys were victims of this priest. The sexual abuse was primarily fondling. The complainant stated that this priest would, following football matches, pick different boys for ‘inspection’ and bring them to his room to make sure that they had washed themselves properly. In response to this allegation the Congregation in question stated that they did not intend to dispute the complainant’s statement and apologised.

A lay member of staff was alleged to have sexually abused the second complainant on one occasion. He detailed how approximately six years later he informed his family but was not believed. A number of years later he made a statement to the Gardaí. He also described how he was the victim of peer abuse as the older boys in the school bullied him. He described the food as extremely bad.

Neither complainant reported the abuse while in school.

Conclusions

Many of the children in these institutions were particularly vulnerable because they were ill, or were suffering from some disability or were orphans without adults to protect them. The guiding principle that the more vulnerable the person, the greater the duty of care, should have ensured the institutions provided the kind of care commensurate with the children’s needs. The complainants not merely claimed that their needs were not met but alleged that some adults exploited their vulnerability by abusing them and by not according them the respect due to all human beings. Children must be respected and consulted, and their interests must always be paramount in the way in which care is provided.