462 entries for Witness Testimony

A third complainant who was sent to the technical college for an extra year’s education said he received a ‘good education’. He also said that you could learn music in the band if you wanted to, although he personally did not pursue this. He thought there were two more boys who attended the tech with him.

By contrast, three complainants were very critical of the education received.

One complainant, who was in Tralee in the 1940s, said that he received a ‘very bad education, really bad’. He reflected that it was perhaps his own fault, as he could not take things in. He recalled how the nuns taught him how to read and write. In Tralee, the emphasis was not on his education but rather on his work on the farm and in the laundry. His arithmetic was ‘right up the creek really’. He could read but he could not spell. When asked to what extent his education developed while in Tralee, he replied ‘very, very bad, very bad’.

Another complainant recalled that, because he was working on the farm, he received education only when the weather was inclement. He thinks he was about eight years of age when he was sent to work on the farm. He also said that the education he got in Tralee was not better that what he would otherwise have received. He said he went to school ‘the odd time’. He did, however, recall Br Kalle as being a good teacher.

The third witness, who was in Tralee from the late 1950s to the mid-1960s, said, ‘I can’t remember any education. It was terrible because of the climate of fear; I was so frightened all the time’. He was able to read and write when he left Tralee but ‘not too well’. He did learn how to read music while in Tralee. Apart from that, he said, he came out of Tralee with ‘no education’.

Two further complainants were ambivalent about the education they received, although in both cases it would appear to have been reasonably good. The first of these was in Tralee in the 1940s and he recalled that he passed the Primary Certificate. He thought that the whole class had sat it, but learned that only two boys in his class had done so. He believed that he could have received help during the exam from the Brother who supervised during the exam. The Department of Education Primary Certificate results for the relevant year confirm that only two boys in Tralee sat the examination that year. Three years later, 12 boys sat the examination, and two passed.

Another complainant, who attended the school in the 1950s, said that the education he received was both ‘good and poor’. He noted that ‘education in Ireland at that time actually was non existent’. Education, he believed: would prepare you for when you leave the School, but it didn’t actually enhance my situation because when I left the School I still needed help to further my education and there was no actual aftercare.

His writing and spelling, he said, was weak. When he went into Tralee he was ‘okay, well reasonable’ educationally. He failed a lot of exams and said that it may have been his own fault. He was not a quick learner. This complainant later joined the Irish Army, where he failed every one of his exams. He believed that Tralee had a bearing on that. Even though his records show that he had passed the Primary Certificate, he believed he had only completed 5th class when he left Tralee.

Six Brothers gave evidence to the Committee about the education given to the boys. One spoke about the high standard of the education and another recalled the excellent Primary Certificate results. A third told the Committee of the commitment to quality that they had. A fourth spoke about the lack of teaching aids, and a fifth referred to the background of the children as mitigating against a high standard. A sixth Brother spoke about how the boys were all in the same class, regardless of ability. He told the Committee how this was different to Artane, where they were streamed. None of the Brothers referred to the poor quality of the classrooms that was identified by successive Visitors in the 1960s.

The standard of education in Tralee was better than in some other industrial schools. The smaller numbers, and two genuinely interested Resident Managers during the 1950s, led to improved standards, a fact borne out by some of the complainants.

According to their Opening Statement, the earliest record the Christian Brothers have of a pupil receiving second level education was an account from a Brother who taught in the school in the 1940s. He said that, towards the end of his time there, some of the pupils went to the Green Secondary School in Tralee, which was also run by the Christian Brothers. There was a record of one other pupil achieving his Intermediate and Leaving Certificates in the 1950s. It was not until the 1960s that boys were sent to secondary school from Tralee on a consistent basis, although the local secondary school was owned and operated by the Christian Brothers.

One of the items on the agenda for the meeting of the Christian Brothers’ Resident Managers’ Association, held on 31st April 1957, was whether ‘anything extra’ could be done for industrial school pupils of outstanding ability when they reached the age of 16 years. The minutes recorded the following: The number of pupils of “outstanding ability” is apparently very small. The Department, as intimated through its Inspector Mr Sugrue, is very interested in the progress of those boys who are attending a Secondary School in Glin, and gives a maintenance grant for an extra year for them. Br L. Hourigan said there was no trouble in having boys admitted to the Army School of Music. The experiment was not a success in Tralee – boys sent to attend the Brothers’ Sec. School proved unsatisfactory.

It is not clear in what respect this was ‘unsatisfactory’, as very few boys had attended secondary school by 1957. In 1963, the Visitor stated: Boys who have gone on to the Secondary School at St. Mary’s are doing very well – two of them have the priesthood in mind – and about nine boys follow a course in Woodwork and are taught by a member of the Technical School staff.

Only four of the complainants heard by the Committee had attended secondary/technical school.

In July 1943, the Resident Manager wrote to the Secretary of the Department of Education, asking that the boys in the primary school should be allowed to attend classes in woodwork and manual training in the local technical college as part of their school week. An hour and a half or two hours a week was proposed. This proposal was accepted by the Department of Education, but was not implemented because of staff changes in Tralee and, accordingly, the scheme was abandoned.