2,143 entries for Witness Testimony

The Commission commented on supervision and aftercare of children discharged from industrial schools, and was critical of this aspect of care in schools run by the Christian Brothers. Paragraph 120 said: We are not satisfied as to the adequacy of the methods of supervision and after-care of children discharged from these schools, particularly in the case of boys leaving the Industrial Schools which are under the management of the Christian Brothers.

On this subject, the Brothers’ submission had described a very satisfactory situation, which was obviously not accepted by the Commissioners: The school keeps in touch with the ex-pupils by letters, enquiries, meetings, when on holiday, reports from employers, etc., for at least two years, and generally for three years after they leave school, and taking into account how greatly they were handicapped in earlier life, it is most gratifying to find the small percentage of those who have failed to make good.

The Christian Brothers made similar submissions regarding Artane as they made in relation to other institutions. In particular, they submitted that: an analysis of all the evidence before the Commission strongly suggests that, at a time of significant economic deprivation in the State, the Congregation fully and properly discharged its legal and moral obligations to care for the boys in Artane and that it did so notwithstanding limited financial and related support from the State. Further, in spite of considerable restrictions, the Congregation adopted a progressive and reforming approach to childcare which became particularly apparent in the 1960s. When one takes all of the evidence before the Commission into account, there can be no doubt that, at all times, the welfare and best interests of the boys was the paramount concern of the Congregation and of its members who worked in Artane. The evidence would also suggest that the quality of care which was thus provided to the boys was, in all the circumstances, of a particularly high standard.

The spokesman for the Christian Brothers at Phases I and III of the hearings was Br Michael Reynolds, who conceded that: There are three and possibly four cases there where I would say yes, there was certainly very severe punishment administered. I am not saying that is the totality of it, I am saying that is what I can work out of on record. I would say the discipline was quite strict and corporal punishment was used and so on. What I am saying is I don’t think that even in relation to physical punishment that it was an abusive institution by the standards of the time.

He was then asked if he accepted that it probably went further than that and he replied: I do, yes. Unfortunately I am doing that in one sense off the top of my head or from a gut feeling rather than saying – if I was challenged on that I can’t stand it up with documentation because I haven’t got it, but I am not saying that in the absence of documentation that nothing else happened other than what was documented here.

Less than a month later, the Visitor commented that Br Jules had his: boys in a state of terror. He maintains a harsh, unnatural discipline. His boys show this. At times, he has been very severe and has treated individual boys in a cruel manner. He does not seem to realise that he is severe or if he does he will not admit it. Br Karcsi7 is being drawn to follow his bad example however, Br Karcsi is by no means so bad ... Were it not for the occasional outbreaks of severity on the part of Br Jules, and his general harsh manner in dealing with them, the school would hold a high place amongst our Institutions.

The Investigation Committee heard evidence from complainants about Br Beaufort. A witness recalled an example of his temper, when he suffered the kind of serious bodily harm apprehended by Br Noonan. Br Beaufort thought that the boy was laughing at him in class and responded impetuously: he jumped straight at me, picked me up, threw me like a dog around the place. I hit desks, hit the floor. I landed after some time on the floor. The commotion of boys screaming had brought Br Quintrell,10 who was in 11 school, which was the next school, he flew in and pulled him off. I know I was unconscious, and I know to God that if it hadn’t been for him coming in, I do not think I would be here today, in all honesty. The attack was vicious. Moments later, he was apologising, crying.

The Inspector of Industrial Schools wrote, in July 1949, asking for details of an incident involving Br Olivier, and the Resident Manager replied three days later: Last year [the mother of a boy] happened to visit the School the very day her second son ... had a black eye. She mentioned the matter to me, and I investigated it there and then. Apparently the Brother losing his temper in class gave the boy a blow on the face with the palm of his hand, and next day the skin was discoloured. (Of course the discolouration disappeared within a few days.) I spoke to the Brother implicated (Br Olivier) and made it clear that such should not happen again. And as far as I know nothing has happened since then.

Br Olivier served in Artane in the late 1940s and early 1950s. He said that all Brothers were issued with a leather strap to maintain discipline, and commented: The danger with that is this; that it could be used excessively ... depending on the type of person you were. You could be somebody with a short fuse like myself, I have to admit I had the short fuse, and there would be times perhaps when ... you would be inclined to use it. You see it was the only armoury you had ... In fairness I would say though that the Rules of the Congregation laid down, I am just thinking back and I want to be fair to the Brothers as well, rules are there maybe to be broke, but it was specified that corporal punishment should never be used for failure in lessons, that type of thing. ... I could go a week, a month, without ever giving a slap to a fella, it could happen. I am not trying to make myself out that I am a saint or that I wouldn’t use it, I certainly would indeed, and I’m awfully sorry ...

He said he did not adhere to the rules regarding corporal punishment very often. He did not recall the rules being brought to his attention while in Artane. He had never seen a punishment book: I could have slapped a fella maybe on the face or something like that. I might even hit a fella a punch in the back. It could have happened.

Several witnesses complained about Br Olivier’s excessive use of physical punishment. One witness said he used to punch boys on the jaw without warning. The Brother responded to this allegation by saying: Yes. That could be. I am not denying it. I cannot remember any specific case ... but I am not denying that such a thing could have happened.

This witness described in detail an incident which he believed was a punishment for trying to get out of playing hurling, the sport in the charge of Br Olivier. The witness described how he developed a blister on his finger and tried to lance it with a needle, as he had seen his grandmother doing. He said that Br Olivier, however: ... accused me of deliberately trying to harm myself to avoid going training. He said he would cure it for me. That evening in the dormitory, him and Br Boyce19 called me into the boot room ... they had a kidney shaped utensil and boiling water. They got hold of me and I realised what they were going to do and I tried to make a run for it. The pair of them got hold of me and Br Olivier got my finger and shoved it in. I screamed and roared and tried to pull it back and they held it. After 10 or 15 seconds the pain went. It just went numb and it was bearable. They held it in for a while and out it come. That’s when he told me to walk the passageway, gangway which was linoleum in the centre of the dormitory. As time went on it swelled, it swelled. He obviously went to bed.

The night watchman found the boy, who had not gone to bed because of the instruction from the Brothers to ‘walk the passageway, gangway’, and told him to go to bed: The next morning I got up my finger was a white ball of flesh, waterlogged. I reported sick, I reported to Br Cretien20, which you had to do to get to see the nurse. I told the nurse what happened. I was treated at least a month or six weeks until eventually all the skin peeled off. Sometimes the nurse would cut it. After some weeks I was like a plucked chicken, bare skin. In time the skin grew back on the nail. To this day that finger, especially in cold weather, is numb, there is no feeling in it. I swear they must have burned the nerve ends.

Br Olivier gave his account of the incident: ... I was trying to help him, I was trying to cure him. That was a common thing long ago in the country, a bread poultice, you know, in water, like, before it comes to the boil. That’s what I tried to do with him. He looked upon it as a penance I think, but I didn’t mean it as a penance.

A second, subsequent incident happened some considerable period later when the boy again failed to attend training. Br Olivier, he said: took me into the washroom. What we used to do if a Brother was going to beat you that night we tried to hang on as long as we could with our trousers on and our clothes. If you stripped off you only had a night-shirt. You didn’t have pyjamas. I thought he is not going to come, good. I stripped off. Sure enough he came in. He brought me into the washroom. He told me to kneel down on the floor and he stood over me with his arms folded. He was quite cool and calm and he said ‘I have told you now more than once to come out and I am going to give you the hiding of your life’ real calm. He was enjoying it. He said ‘hold your hand out. Hold your left hand out and don’t drop it until I tell you’. He took this leather strap out and he gave me four or five straps. I couldn’t hold it out any longer because the strap was starting to go up my arm. I had welts on it. I dropped it. He said ‘I have warned you not to drop your hand. Now, put your other hand out’ and I did. He started to beat me again. Again I dropped it. He said, ‘I did tell you’ and he went berserk. When you seen this man when he lost his temper he was like a wolf. His jaws literally went out and he bared his teeth and he just lashed at me. I was running trying to get away from him. He hit me, it didn’t matter where, legs, back, head, anywhere. During that I must have passed out because when I came around there was water running on my head and the taps from these baths were about that wide ... real old fashioned taps. I must have thought I was dreaming it. Then I thought I was drowning. I drew back and I cracked my head on the nozzle of the tap so I had blood coming down, I had tears, I was soaking wet. He wasn’t finished then. He threw me on the ground and he said ‘you’ll walk that floor for the rest of the night. Of all nights I thought the watchman would come but the watchman didn’t come that night. Nobody came and I walked that passage until 6.30 the next morning. I was so terrified of going to bed that he might come back and beat me again. I walked the whole night without sleep, I swear to God .... The injuries, you just put up with them. I was black and blue but I just had to put up with them ... I never missed a session after that, I can assure you.