Chapter 5 — Interviews

Girls’ Industrial Schools and Reformatories

The Committee’s legal team heard complaints about a total of 12 orphanages that operated in the state during the relevant period. Nine of these institutions had fewer than four complainants, one had six complainants, and two others had 13 and 14 complainants respectively. Unlike Industrial Schools, orphanages did not take children that were committed by the courts but instead children were sent to orphanages by families who had either broken down irretrievably or who were going through a temporary traumatic event or had suffered bereavement. Children usually stayed in the orphanage until they were 12 and then they either went back to their family or extended family or they were placed in an Industrial School if there was no family available to care for them. Orphanages were run by Religious Orders of nuns, Brothers and by lay people. They did not have internal national schools and children from orphanages attended outside national schools. Orphanages did not provide industrial training of any sort although children were required to do quite an extensive round of chores and maintenance in the school.

Where a parent was still alive at the time of a child’s committal to an orphanage, there tended to be more contact between the child and the parent and in many cases the stay in the orphanage was terminated by the child’s return to the family.

The 12 orphanages whose residents were interviewed by the Commission varied greatly in terms of physical punishment and abuse reported by interviewees. In cases where the interviewee was also attending to discuss an Industrial School, the orphanage was sometimes contrasted very favourably with the school that the child subsequently attended. For example, one complainant said that he had been placed in the orphanage because of abuse by his father. He stated that he and his brother were sexually and physically abused whilst he was at home and that he was removed to a children’s home in Dublin. He said that he had great memories of the home that they ‘looked after the children 100 percent’. He said that a lot of love was felt and shown to the children in that home. He was subsequently sent to another institution that he experienced as extremely abusive and about which he had come specifically to the Commission to complain.

There was a wide range of different experiences across different institutions and whilst some orphanages were described as well equipped with good food and clothing, others were described as grim, frightening places. In these institutions physical punishment was the first response to any misdemeanour or wrong doing. Institutions varied as to the level of physical punishment administered. In orphanages that catered exclusively for boys, the level of physical punishment was quite high and children were beaten with canes, leathers and other implements by religious and lay staff.

Bed-wetting was a problem for many of the interviewees as they were in these institutions as very young children. The standard response to an incident of bed-wetting was to be punished physically and humiliated in front of other children.

Interviewees who were in orphanages during their childhood were often there for short periods during traumatic times in the family. For these children the experience of being committed to an orphanage was one of extreme isolation and loneliness. They spoke of how badly they missed their parents and their family and they found it very difficult to settle into the regime of the institution.

Other children were committed to the orphanage because they were born out of wedlock and for these children a lifetime in care was usually the norm. All of the interviewees who experienced childcare in the orphanage system prior to going in to the Industrial School system described the orphanage system as being kinder and more benign than that experienced in the Industrial School system. Although the regime could be harsh and discipline severe, it was not as cruel as their experiences in subsequent institutions.

Where orphanages were described as cruel, it was usually because of one or two staff members who were particularly harsh. There was no evidence that there was a systemic policy of cruelty throughout the institutions and there was some evidence that, where staff members were abusive towards children, management intervened and eventually the perpetrator was removed.

Hospitals

Nine hospitals were mentioned by interviewees to the Investigation Committee’s team. Each institution was subject to one complaint except one hospital, which was the subject of five complaints.

Six hospitals were described by complainants as being physically abusive, some to a greater extent than others.

In terms of hospital treatments two complainants in two separate institutions complained about the lack of pain relief they were given following medical treatments or during illnesses. One complainant stated that they were in great pain when attending the physiotherapist in one particular hospital, and another recalled the immense pain of the physical exercises he would have to perform in his callipers. This was exacerbated in both cases by the lack of any explanation given to the children as to the procedures they were undergoing, or the details regarding their specific illnesses. One complainant recalled how she genuinely believed she was going to die and was not given any reassurance or shown any compassion by those in charge.

Three complainants complained about being slapped for wetting the bed and wetting the floor. One complainant described how she wet the bed as her calls for the bedpan to be brought to her were ignored by those in charge. She stated that once the bed was wet she was left sitting in it for hours and slapped as a punishment. Another complainant, who was a patient in another hospital, described a similar situation were she wet the bed because she wore a restraint in bed and was therefore unable to get up to go to the toilet. As punishment she was made to wear the wet bed sheets.

Nearly all the complainants described an oppressive atmosphere within the hospitals, with punishments often meted out for simple indiscretions or accidents such as spilling milk on the floor or dropping a Bible. Complainants described the generally very rough nature in which they were treated on a daily basis; one complainant particularly recalled the rough, uncaring way in which her hair was brushed by a nun. Other complainants remember generally the feelings of dislike shown to them by the nuns and nurses and were often called names such as ‘nuisance’ and ‘pest’ while being slapped.

A few complainants recalled being slapped and beaten about the head, while one described being beaten with a number of implements including keys and plastic tennis rackets. Furthermore, some recall being stripped before receiving their punishment.

One interviewee described the teacher who taught within the hospital as particularly severe. He recalled the teaching nun as a ‘brute’ and a ‘savage’ and described how she beat him during lessons even though he was still confined to his bed at this point. The complainant eventually became well enough to receive schooling whilst sitting at his desk, but states that the beatings became even worse at this point and he was beaten with a stick.