845 entries for Witness Testimony

He said that the teacher looked after the boys and that they put up with him for that reason. He said: We weren’t idiots. Boys at that age were aware, I was anyway, that some of the teachers and some people were like that.

He continued: he was good to us ... He wasn’t cruel like some of the Brothers. I personally found him very nice and also he always brought a newspaper in every morning. When he was finished the lads would get it. Some of us were avid readers. In that way he was a man’s man, if you like. I know he was a groper but he was a decent man in every other way.

A number of witnesses, who did not themselves claim to have been sexually abused, stated that they believed that other boys were sexually abused in Artane. Almost all of these witnesses acknowledged that they had not actually seen sexual activity taking place, so their evidence and recollections were based on mixtures of surmise, hearsay and deduction. One witness explained: The way I reckoned it was that when I was being abused, I know other boys were going through the same doors, going through the same classroom doors, going the long hall ... I saw them. I saw boys going through the doors ... I mean down to classrooms. I saw them going into classrooms when they shouldn’t have been in the classrooms.

He added: The reason why I think it odd was because the classrooms, any time I ever went into one when I shouldn’t have been there, it was for that reason. That is the only places they could take you. So I reckoned that if it was happening to me in there and Brothers were taking them in there, that it was happening to them. I had seen many Brothers go in there with children, and then I would hear children crying when I was in the dormitories. I knew what they were crying for, because I had done a bit of it myself. I knew boys, that when I was keeping – watching Brothers on the Parade, and I was hiding from them and seeing them hiding from them, I knew what they were hiding from.

Other witnesses testified that they had seen boys going into Brothers’ rooms at night in the period after bedtime and before the night watchman came on duty.

Respondent witnesses gave evidence as to their awareness of sexual activity in Artane. Four Brothers testified that, during their training for the Christian Brothers, they had been instructed about the possibility of inappropriate sexual activity between Brothers and boys.

Br Saber stated that: I would say the best instruction we ever got was before we left the training college. Before we left the training college, we got a talk from our Superior on sexual abuse, right. The attraction of a kid – of a Brother to a young fellow, right. He would be very clear and very specific minded, be careful of it, avoid it ... Some other Brothers would say to me that it didn’t mean much to them because they never encountered it. Right? It did, it meant something to me, I can honestly say that. To most people it did. There was an outbreak in Artane previously seemingly of some Brothers being accused.

Br Gaspard stated that there was a general rule that Brothers should not be alone with boys. One of the reasons for this rule was that it provided a defence for Brothers if accused of abuse. However, he stated that this rule was not rigidly enforced. He informed the Committee that he was always conscious of the rule: I mean that I went out of my way to make sure that I never gave any, never did anything that would be sexually incorrect in my dealings with the boys in Artane.

The third and fourth Brothers were less forthcoming. One acknowledged that Brothers were given specific instructions about sexual abuse, but that it was not a priority. He said he remembered it being discussed but it was not an issue.

The four Brothers testified to having heard rumours of colleagues being asked to leave because of sexual abuse in the School. Br Michel described the rumours as follows: There was a rumour as regards sexual matters, that some years previous to our time, there were one or two men dismissed from the Congregation. Now I didn’t know them. I cannot even name them because it was so long ago, but that rumour was about, that a few men were in trouble with boys and they were actually dismissed.

Br Gaspard stated: The rumours were about ... there were a few Brothers who sexually abused boys and they were dismissed from the Congregation because of that.

A case in the early 1960s, that is documented in the records of the Department of Education, illustrated knowledge by the management of Artane about sexual activity among boys.

A former Artane boy, who was still under the supervision of the Resident Manager of Artane, was on remand in Marlborough House on a charge of indecent assault of a young girl. He had a frank conversation with the officer in charge about his sexual history and proclivities. He went on to say that he had engaged in sexual activity with three other boys on several occasions during his time in Artane.

The Superintendent notified the authorities in Artane, and the Resident Manager visited Marlborough House with a senior Brother to interview the boy. In a subsequent letter to the Department of Education, the Superintendent reported that the boy ‘admitted what he had done and gave the names of the other boys whom he committed offences with in Artane’.

An internal memorandum in the Department expressed: very grave concern and particularly so in the case of the underprivileged children who were sent to Artane by the Courts. It is also suggested that Dr McCabe enquire from the Resident Manager whether he has traced the extent of this practice in the school and what are his proposals for dealing with the situation.