845 entries for Witness Testimony

The following month, Dr McCabe reported her interview with the Resident Manager of Artane. She first inquired about the boy who had at that stage been dealt with by the District Court, and she went on to ask about the three boys who had been implicated in sexual activity in Artane. She was told that ‘they have now left the school’. Dr McCabe then asked about the extent of the problem and what proposals the Resident Manager had for dealing with it. She noted: I then inquired about the supervision carried out and as far as is reasonably sensible it appears to be well done – but as the Brother intimated to me when boys are so inclined if opportunity arises and temptation is there it is very difficult to be always on the qui vive. In fact the Superior said that to have a complete supervisory system the Brothers detailed for such work would need to have no other duties but as it is now the Superior is having to teach and perform various tasks. However, he is quite well alive to such moral dangers and as far as it is possible for him will see that strict supervision is enforced. He also reminded me that there are retreats at stated intervals each year and that the Chaplain is very interested in these boys and also the Superior gives a little talk in the Chapel at prayer time.

The proceedings in the District Court were described by the Superintendent of Marlborough House in his letter to the Department: Rev Brother Leon74 was requested by Dist. Justice Price, B.L. to attend [the] Dist. Court ... and the Justice directed him, as being the legal guardian; to have arrangements made to have the boy committed to Grangegorman Mental Hospital, so that he could be subsequently transferred to Portrane Mental Hospital for treatment and the Justice further remanded [the boy] to Marlborough House until ... he was to appear at [another] Court ... ... the boy again appeared before Dist. Justice Price [at the other] Court. Brother Leon again attended the Court and stated that no arrangements were made to have [the boy] committed to a mental hospital; so the Justice let the boy out on his own bail of £10 and made an Order that he was to be of good behaviour for 12 months; when he was discharged. The mother of the boy was not in Court at any time.

The Resident Manager was inconsistent in what he told the Department of Education.

The Manager first told Dr McCabe that the three boys had left the School. On a visit to the Department, the Resident Manager ‘stated that he did not know the identity of the boys as Bro. Leon who had handled the matter had since died but that he would find out and reply later’. It is not easy to understand how the Manager could have given that information to the Department because he was, after all, present at the interview with the boy in Marlborough House when the names of the boys were given. Furthermore, the manager had previously told Dr McCabe that the three boys had left the Institution, so at that point he must have known the names. Finally, the Manager wrote in response to a formal request sent two months earlier and gave two names, adding that one of them was still in the School and that the other had been discharged the previous year.

In conclusion: The Department expressed concern about the revelation of sexual activity between boys in Artane, and asked Dr McCabe to inquire into the extent of the problem and the proposals for dealing with it. The Manager undertook to do no more than was already in place, which, by his own admission, was inadequate. The Department did not pursue the matter. The Resident Manager was inconsistent in the information he gave to the Department, indicating a lack of respect for the Government officials who raised the matter with him. This case indicated that there was a higher level of sexual activity in Artane than the authorities there were capable of dealing with. It is a matter of concern that no documentation relating to this matter survived in the records furnished by the Christian Brothers.

Br Romain75 spoke about an investigation into sexual activity among boys that occurred during his time in Artane, during the late 1960s. He said that up to a dozen boys, who were all in the same domestic economy class, had complained of being sexually abused by older boys in the School. Br Jeoffroi,76 who was a young Brother in Artane at the time, instituted an investigation. The witness said that ‘everybody knew about it’, when asked whether the pupils and staff generally knew of this investigation. Br Jeoffroi interviewed all the boys but the witness was not in a position to give further information. He did not know if boys had been punished or not – he only remembered the fact of the investigation.

Sexual activity between boys in Artane appears to have been a common feature during all of the relevant period. Part of this activity consisted of sexual abuse by older boys with younger boys, in this report referred to as ‘peer abuse’. Many complainant witnesses, however, were reluctant to discuss sex between boys generally, and particularly the question of peer abuse. Nevertheless, the Committee was satisfied on sufficient evidence and reasonable inference that both these features of sex between boys were present at all relevant times.

A witness spoke about an unwelcome approach: I was working in the tinsmiths and this boy attacked me and threw me on the floor and lay on top of me. At the time it was a sex act. I didn’t know it was a sex act at the time. Like I said, I never even saw my aunty’s ankles. Of course I didn’t know that, that’s what it was. That’s what he was doing. It was reported. When Br Cretien asked me, “yes, I was attacked”. He still gave me six, right on the hand, not anywhere else, directly on the hand. He said he had to punish both of us. That boy never came near me again. I believe he was punished again for other acts which he did to other boys.

Another witness explained the reason for fearing becoming known as a sexually active boy: You know, there was two things that you never did in Artane. One was you never touched another boy in a sexual area. Me personally never did anyway. Another thing is that you never told of it if it ever happened to you because then you’re open, you’re open season then. If you are open season that means the boys get you. So you don’t tell anybody, you keep your mouth shut and that’s it ... Nobody, except a priest. I told nobody. I am sure it happened to other boys and they told nobody either because you didn’t tell. You know, I mean, you were a soft touch then.

A further witness was embarrassed about his sexual activity, even though it was by consent: Well, it is probably a bit embarrassing, but to be honest with you I was actually involved in that myself. It was just sort of playing around basically ... No, it wasn’t very frequent but it happened every now and then. But it was very common in Artane, it was very common that boys would be playing around with each other ... Most of the time, 99% of the time it would be a case of just two boys messing about.

He went on to comment on the Brothers’ awareness, and on the prevalence of one particular form of common sexual activity: ... you have got to appreciate in places like Artane, well it wasn’t very, very common but quite a lot of times boys would be masturbating each other. If another boy that wasn’t, you know, doing that would find out they would say it was badness.

Another witness recalled an admonitory talk by a Brother: ... and the Brother who was giving the speech, God knows who he was, turned around and says “right, we know what you boys are doing, you have got to stop it”. This Brother in particular said, “We found over 300 children playing with each other”. Now there was only about 450 in the school. We were all standing there listening and that and, I don’t know whether they ever stopped or not.

A witness spoke of the enormous interest of the Brothers in ‘badness’ and the sin of impurity: Badness was the sin of impurity. They had the sixth commandment. I remember Br Jules used to say there is more people in hell because of the sixth commandment, the sin of impurity. They were absolutely bonkers on this. When we were growing up, young lads, 14, 15, you are getting feelings, you are getting wet dreams and things like that ... As I say, they must have thought that must be one of the reasons of so called badness. It meant boys messing with one another, thought, word or deed or whatever. They regularly wanted to know if you spoke, swore, told bad jokes. They had a mania for this sort of thing.

The Congregation in its Opening Statement said that it was aware of the possibility of sexual abuse among the boys themselves. Precautionary measures were taken to ensure that such abuse did not occur, including careful supervision of the boys at all times but particularly in the dormitories. The Statement referred to a 1946 Visitation Report which expressed concern about the danger of a lack of proper control in the infirmary, on the grounds that failure to ‘exercise proper control over the boys who are confined there when convalescing ... may be a source of serious danger to their morals’. The Statement said that, although Brothers who worked in Artane confirmed that such abuse occurred, there was no documentary evidence available to the Congregation concerning individual cases of peer abuse. The only documented case of peer abuse appeared in records disclosed by the Department of Education and Science.

Brothers testified to their awareness of peer abuse, but their accounts differ as regards its prevalence, the Brothers’ obligation to look out for it, and the punishments meted out.