2,143 entries for Witness Testimony

It was only later, after Artane closed, that he supplemented his training as a teacher by attending, under his own initiative, a childcare course. At one point in his testimony he said: as I looked back over the years at my time in Artane I became aware that there were times when I punished boys ... and might have done better ... I looked back at Artane and saw what the system was like ... the more knowledge I acquired the more critical I became I suppose of how I saw Artane and what I did.

Some of the other Brothers showed a similar awareness of the emotional needs of the children in their care, and lamented that the system did not address them. One Brother, who was in Artane from the late 1940s to the early 1950s, told the Investigation Committee: I would say I was lacking in appreciation of ... the circumstances in which these chaps found themselves, away from home and that kind of thing ... I wouldn’t know who was legitimate or illegitimate or anything of that nature and I tried to treat everyone the same and of course you cannot do that. In that sense I would regret that.

Another Brother, who was in Artane in the 1960s, told the Investigation Committee of an occasion when the degree of deprivation of some of his pupils was brought home to him in a disquieting way. He recounted the following incident: ... I remember teaching a lesson, it was English reading and it was about a family, and I discovered a boy in the class who didn’t understand what the word “mother” meant. “Brother” or “sister”, it meant nothing to him. I was taken aback by that.

Another Brother told the Investigation Committee of one boy in Artane who had taught him a great deal about human nature. He said: I did learn before I left Artane, if I could tell you a small little story. There was the chap, I can remember his name ... he feared neither God nor man. He didn’t give a hoot about anybody. He was a desperado ... constantly in trouble ... he was the toughest fellow I have ever came across anywhere. Who arrived to see him but his mother. The fella didn’t even know he had a mother. So he was in to meet her ... she was all over him ... he was due out in three months and he was welcome to come to her and she would look after him ... that guy ... went back, I couldn’t believe it, he was a model, because for the first time in his life he realised he had a mother, there was somebody. He didn’t care what she was like. And he was complete – a model boy.

One Brother explained: sometimes a fellow, you would be nice and a fella would come up to you trying to play up to you and say, “Can I be your chafer?” God love them.

A Brother, who was in Artane from the late 1950s to the mid-1960s, spoke of what he called ‘that softening down ... in the whole system’ that occurred during his time in Artane. It became ‘a kinder place to be than the first day I entered it’. He told the Investigation Committee: But I have to say now, in all sincerity, that in the latter years that I was there, there was a hell of an improvement, both in food, dress, entertainment, mixing with the outside world. Getting parents or getting Godparents for these kids and trying to get them out and breaking the system.

When asked to explain what he meant by ‘breaking the system’, he explained: You don’t change an environment overnight ... It is done over the years. What I am trying to get across is that when these changes did take place ... you didn’t wave a magic wand and say, “everything is new, everything is grand”. It took years even when Br Ourson was there.

Artane was purpose built for 825 children, and the capitation system meant that keeping the numbers up was an economic necessity. One Brother in his testimony summed it up neatly: I would say the biggest problem was what can you do to change the life for 800 young fellas? It was entirely too big. Now who was responsible for that? ... the more we had the more money we got. But the more we had didn’t necessarily mean that it was a better place for them to be.

The Investigation Committee heard evidence from many former pupils and staff from Artane with regard to the size of the Institution. A former pupil, in Artane from the mid-1940s to the early 1950s, described: The first night, I was put in the ward, I couldn’t believe it. It looked to me huge. All the beds in a line and I was put into this bed and I was crying. I was told to stop crying and I couldn’t. I was smacked [by the Brother who was on at nights] to say if you don’t stop crying you will get another one ... I couldn’t sleep ... I was woken up and I had wet the bed.

Another former Brother who served in Artane in the early 1960s said: the numbers were very large and you had to have your wits about you to keep an eye on everything, you know, to make sure nobody was in danger. You would want to keep the smaller children away from bigger so they wouldn’t be run down or hurt or anything.

One Brother was asked if the system made it difficult to be compassionate with individuals. He replied, ‘I would say so, yes, I would agree. I mean it was numbers, large numbers you were dealing’.

A Brother in Artane in the 1950s, whilst saying that there was a good atmosphere between the 800 boys and the 25 to 30 Brothers, said that it was ‘mass production ... It was impossible to do anything worthwhile with them’. He felt that the Brothers on the ground were interested in the children’s welfare and many of the children did well, but it depended more on their background and make-up. When asked why nobody spoke out about the impossibility of looking after 800 boys, he replied: I was going to use ignorance ... It was lack of knowledge or lack of insights by the Brothers ourselves, by headquarters and that. I mean 800 – there were 800 people that weren’t wanted and that nobody else would take them.

He went on to say: Some of them [the lads] unfortunately who had problems and maybe who should not have been there at all, they should have been in some other institution that could care for such people like that ... at that particular time we weren’t as aware ... about the importance of having places for people like that who need specific care and specific attention and specific help.

He was still angry at the enormity of it all. He railed against the system that allowed such numbers: 825 kids were imposed on us. No. 1 by the Superior, No.2 by the authorities, by the Archbishop of Dublin, who wanted the kids sent to Artane, not Letterfrack or to Galway because they were too far from home ... 825 where the maximum was supposed to be 800 and you had kids on the floor and it was really cruel and unnatural and wrong.

This Brother also saw children who were isolated and lost within the system. He told the Investigation Committee: I suppose you never knew a kid, like, to talk to him. You would pick out a lonely child ... If he hadn’t a friend it would be tough. Really tough. You could see a kid that is lonesome, you would take him in the hand or something. He was the only boy from Gorey. He was the only boy from Wexford ...