2,143 entries for Witness Testimony

One witness recalled how he was warned to avoid certain Brothers when he first went to Artane: There was always talk amongst the boys who to keep away from. When I went in there first, being naïve you don’t know anybody and you have boys coming to you and telling you “you watch Brother so and so, and watch Brother so and so. Don’t let him come near you or don’t let him get you into a place on your own”, things like that, like. But it only happened to me by one particular Brother, where sexual abuse took place, the rest was physical and mental abuse.

Another witness described how abuse by Br Bruce73 became progressively more severe, culminating in an attempt to commit anal rape. The witness was detained in Artane during the 1940s: ... at first it was just, he used to just take me trousers down and just stand there and make me masturbate him and things like that. But then it got a bit deeper and deeper where he would ask me to do things, which I couldn’t understand at the time. But like, he would ask me to – oral sex and things like that. Then he started bringing me, just, it is only 50 yards down into the shower rooms and in there he would bring me down, usually down the left-hand side into one of the curtain rooms at the bottom there and then on a couple of occasion he actually tried to rape me, but he never did succeed. He used to be very upset himself even afterwards, you know, what he was doing.

A witness from the 1940s described how Br Armande progressed from talking about sex to physical contact and then to masturbation: He liked to talk dirty ... So over a period of time he used to ask me “have you ever popped or ejaculated”’ and things like that. No, “I can’t”. I knew other boys could. I forget how the conversation – but the subject of circumcising came up and he said “probably that’s your problem. I will show you some time”. Over a period of time – he would press into you, he invariably wore a cloak so anybody looking from the sides couldn’t see what was going on. One incident, as I say, in the theatre, when we used to file in the theatre, at the end of every, maybe, third row was left vacant so that a Brother would sit there presumably to keep an eye on us. I happened to be in this seat and Br Armande – the seat was vacant, so I didn’t know what Brother it was going to be. I think he was either a projectionist or assisting the projectionist. Once the film started he came and sat beside me. I always remember he gave me a sweet and he started touching and petting and one thing and the other. I got to admit I was aroused. He kind of got my hand and done the same, messing.

The same witness described another occasion when sexual activity was aborted because of the arrival of another person in the dormitory: The other incident with Br Armande was the morning I was expelled from the band ... I was expelled from the band and I was told to report to the dormitory. He told me to go over to the far corner of the dormitory where the Brother’s sleeping room was. He said “lie on the bed there and take your trousers down”. He disappeared and went off down to the long hall, I suppose, to check. There I was in the bed waiting for him to come. I got to admit I was quite excited about it because I had never ejaculated and he was going to show me ... I was just coming up to 16, 15 and a half. I had heard other boys saying they had. Whatever happened, somebody must have came. The next thing I knew the door was open and he hollered “anybody in here, get out now”. I jumped up, put on my trousers, ran down and joined everybody else at the parade. That was the incident.

This witness described how a sympathetic approach by the Manager led to his divulging information about abuse: He put a friendly arm around me, drew me close to him and he said, “Tell me, what’s troubling you?” I started to cry and I blurted out all the things that happened to me and why I hated God, I hated my own parents for being weak and dying, I hated religion. “Tell me”.. So I told him about what Olivier had done and I told him about Br Armande . I told him the specific incident, general as well, but mainly what Br Olivier had done to me. I told him about the Br Armande. I would never have had the courage to go and complain to anybody because I would be terrified I would get another hiding, they wouldn’t believe me. On that occasion he was so kind that he got my confidence, he spoke to me like a father. I blurted out and told him everything.

Another described how Br Gaspard questioned him about where his hands were: He pulled the covers down slightly and got my hands like that (indicating). That is how they told us to fall asleep in bed. Then he got down on one knee, might have been two knees, and just slid his hand across my lower abdomen. Didn’t touch anything, just straight across. That was it ... There was something odd about it, obviously. It wasn’t the sort of thing you done. It’s always sort of remained with me.

One witness who was in Artane in the 1940s described a sexual relationship with a Brother that he said was different from what happened with other Brothers. This relationship was a sexual affair with affection and reciprocity. It is scarcely necessary to add that it was a case of serious sexual abuse: ... I had sexual relations with him. That is the way I look at it. I will say the others abused me, but with him I would be kinder with the words because the man did look after he me, but I did do things with him that today people would stand up and scream about. But he was kind. He was probably the only person in my life up to that time. Probably the only person in my life up to that time that would give me a hug, look after me. Anyone, nobody could get to me. You know, he kept the others away. Monitors never reported me because they knew I would report them. Simple. He looked after me, I looked after him. As simple as that ... sexual abuse did take place. But at that time that was mine, I now know that it was wrong. But at the time, if he had asked me to eat his head, I would have eaten his head, as simple as that.

When it was suggested to him that this relationship appeared to form a large part of his memories of Artane, he replied: It does, actually, because as I said, he was probably was the one person I loved at that point. I did love the man, you know. I know he done that, but I loved him. I have very fond memories of the man. But now I am 68.

In contrast, he named four other Brothers as having been sexually abusive of him. This complainant said that, at the same time that he was being sexually abused, the Brothers were emphasising the evils of sex: They screamed about the dangers of badness and yet they were practising it on us.

Another complainant spoke about a lay teacher’s behaviour that he saw as coming into a different category from other sexual experiences in Artane: He used have his cloth over him and he kind of took my hand and placed it on top with the cloth covering it in case anybody came in. I touched him like that ... He carried on ... and then sent me back to my place. That’s all [he] ever done, he was a fondler more than anything. He didn’t ask you to undress or anything like that.

He confirmed the statement that he had made to the Commission: All boys liked [him] because he was a gentle kind of man.

He said that the teacher looked after the boys and that they put up with him for that reason. He said: We weren’t idiots. Boys at that age were aware, I was anyway, that some of the teachers and some people were like that.

He continued: he was good to us ... He wasn’t cruel like some of the Brothers. I personally found him very nice and also he always brought a newspaper in every morning. When he was finished the lads would get it. Some of us were avid readers. In that way he was a man’s man, if you like. I know he was a groper but he was a decent man in every other way.

A number of witnesses, who did not themselves claim to have been sexually abused, stated that they believed that other boys were sexually abused in Artane. Almost all of these witnesses acknowledged that they had not actually seen sexual activity taking place, so their evidence and recollections were based on mixtures of surmise, hearsay and deduction. One witness explained: The way I reckoned it was that when I was being abused, I know other boys were going through the same doors, going through the same classroom doors, going the long hall ... I saw them. I saw boys going through the doors ... I mean down to classrooms. I saw them going into classrooms when they shouldn’t have been in the classrooms.

He added: The reason why I think it odd was because the classrooms, any time I ever went into one when I shouldn’t have been there, it was for that reason. That is the only places they could take you. So I reckoned that if it was happening to me in there and Brothers were taking them in there, that it was happening to them. I had seen many Brothers go in there with children, and then I would hear children crying when I was in the dormitories. I knew what they were crying for, because I had done a bit of it myself. I knew boys, that when I was keeping – watching Brothers on the Parade, and I was hiding from them and seeing them hiding from them, I knew what they were hiding from.