2,143 entries for Witness Testimony

Six (6) male witnesses described being physically abusive, which resulted in serious injury to their wives and/or children. A number of witnesses reported a sense of guilt about how they may have contributed to their children’s difficulties resulting, in some instances, in drug abuse and/or early deaths: I was very hard on my kids. It got so much that my kids ended up hating me. I always had a problem with drinking that was my downfall and my aggression regarding my kids. I had a good wife and she stood by me and my sons and my daughters, I can go to any of them but I can’t live with them. I lost...children through drugs, the drink was my downfall.

Seventy five (75) witnesses, 26 male and 49 female, described having variable relationships with their different children, some finding one or other of their children more difficult to relate to and acknowledged being excessively strict as a result. A number of witnesses described being harsh on their older children and being much closer to their younger children. Other witnesses said that the relationships with their children improved as they got older and they were able to talk to them about their own childhood experiences. A large number of both male and female witnesses reported having more affectionate, close and rewarding bonds with their grandchildren than they had with their own children: I would love to have said the word “mum”. ... When my daughter says it and when I hear my grandchildren say it, it’s lovely. ... My joy today is my grandchildren, they’re lovely. • I stopped it ...(hitting children)... because ... I said it is not the right thing to do. When I had my second child I stopped. My first child thinks terrible of me because I hit her. It does affect them too you know. I used have them cleaning all the time, that’s the way I was brought up. I should never have hit them, I feel a lot of guilt in myself for doing this to them. I was a terrible mam, I was. We get on all right now.

A number of adult children who accompanied witnesses to hearings described the shock they experienced when they first became aware of the abuse and deprivations their parents endured as children. Some stated that learning about their parents’ childhood experiences helped them to understand and accept the hardship of their own traumatic childhoods with parents who were excessively punitive and critical or unable to show affection. The daughter of a witness attending as a companion reported: My father never spoke to us, you got hit. He’d hit me mammy, he’d hit me, he’d hit my brothers. He was aggressive, he was violent, none of the rest of his family are like this. He has mellowed, he is not like that now, we can talk for hours. The difference with the grandchildren.... He was very good to us material wise, he was a good father that way.

Self-employment was reported by witnesses to have been a constructive response to managing authority and a desire for independence. Several male and female witnesses described themselves as ‘workaholics’ some of whom reported building up successful businesses that allowed them to keep busy and take their mind off their traumatic past. Others reported a liking for solitude and self-motivation, which favoured self-employment. I can’t hold a job, I can’t focus, I can’t work with anyone. I walk off a job when people start to show authority, I walk away. I struggle. I have had ...(many jobs, now works alone)... which I find the best I don’t have to answer to anyone. • I loved the freedom of being able to do things...(working for self)... and not being chastised...

Many male and female witnesses described the detrimental effects of a poor education on their work lives. Poor literacy, combined with the stigma of having been in a Reformatory or Industrial School, led to many witnesses ‘keeping their heads down’ to avoid criticism or the shame of being ‘found out’ as having been in an institution. They found it difficult to progress beyond unskilled labouring, factory or cleaning work and had poorly provisioned retirements. They described their working lives as a constant struggle to survive without drawing attention to their perceived shortcomings, both educational and social. You were put down a lot, if anyone says “where are you from?” Well you have nowhere, have you? If you say Dublin, then they say “where?” and you just can’t say, it’s that stigma. I thought people would judge me badly. • When I came out ... the lack of education hit me. I was unskilled, I was terrified, I couldn’t put ...(name of School)... on the form. I couldn’t go back into education because, what is education? It is beatings. • I go haywire when anyone gives me an application form to fill out...I haven’t got the confidence, I know what my writing is like, I know what my spelling is like... • I was in ...named company...for 25 years and they said you’ll have to learn it...(computer)...I was terrified I would show myself up. I can’t go over the boss and say “can I have...?”. I can’t go up and approach him. It’s not because of him, it’s because of me...I’m terrified. Then they...(work colleagues)... say to me “you should go for that”, if they only knew the truth, I don’t want anyone to know my background...instead of moving up in work I’ve moved down. I couldn’t say I want more because I’d be afraid.

One witness whose life was, like many others, a catalogue of jobs with varying levels of responsibility, always on the move, afraid of being found out as being from an Industrial School and having no family stated: I had the capacity to find a cosy corner somewhere, settle in and keep to myself and then the day would come when I would feel comfortable and give my opinion about something and they would all wonder where that came from, I’d show myself as someone with a brain. Then I would have to move on again, afraid I’d be discovered ...(to have been in an Industrial School).... • I work nightshift, which suits me grand because they leave me alone, nobody bothers me. I can just get on with my work, they know I’m a good worker. I always keep busy myself, that’s how I cope.

With little or no preparation for open employment and life outside the institution the initial experience of being discharged was described by the majority of witnesses as a shock. As noted previously, aftercare provision and follow-up, with the exception of job placement, was reported as minimal or non-existent for the majority of witnesses and those who had spent most of their lives in an institution and had no family contact reported severe difficulties adjusting to society when they were discharged. I found it very difficult moving into a different society, I found it very, very hard. I was very shy, felt everybody was looking at me.... When I was 16 I got a job in a ... shop. I could not get used to farthings and 3-halfpence and things like that. They threw me out. ... I felt all the girls were laughing at me.... I was good for nothing at that stage. • Jobs I found very hard. I worked in Dublin for 3 years, the longest job I had. I had to work to pay my rent, when you’re not living with family...I used to think everybody was looking at me. I used to get red in the face. Getting a job...(in a public service area)...I was looking and learning and listening to how people behaved and copying them. I wasn’t asked questions, I was there on my own...I was in charge...I got confidence.

Seventy one (71) male witnesses joined either the Irish Defence Forces or overseas armies at some time during their life. Many witnesses described the Army as providing security, shelter and a structured regime in addition to career opportunities and the possibility of travel. Twenty-two (22) male witnesses had substantial and positive careers in the Army, 10 of whom spent the majority of their working lives there. The Army was another way, a lot of the lads joined the Army. It was the same as...named School...but you got paid for it. You had the rules and regulations, you had punishment but you got paid.

Male and female witnesses also described the difficulty they experienced getting on with work colleagues and dealing with work place authority. Male witnesses reported that the lack of education, the effects of alcohol abuse, aggressive behaviour, lack of trust and poor self-esteem had a negative influence on their work lives. Female witnesses frequently reported that in addition to their lack of education, a fear of authority and of making mistakes led them to avoid positions of responsibility in the work place and deterred them from seeking promotion; a number of male witnesses also reported this experience. Many male and female witnesses said that their experiences in the School system left them with a tendency to be excessively anxious and suspicious, creating subsequent difficulties in both their work and home lives. When I started work it was tough. If someone came in to the restroom I would run in to the loo and lock myself in, I was terrified in case they spoke to me....I feel so stupid at work,...they do...(record)... minutes and everybody takes turns...I was going to say to them “I’m not good at that” but I thought they’d ask “why?” • If anyone annoys me I start a row. I have to be on my own, I can’t get on with people. I have done every job under the sun. I’ve worked hard but move a lot. It’s hard to trust anyone and I was unpredictable. • In England I would love to have been on the buses ...(working on the buses).... But, I couldn’t fill in forms.... Even when you went out with a boyfriend you thought you weren’t good enough for him, you weren’t good enough for anyone really. You were with friends but they were better than you. ... The girls that you were with you’d always be afraid you’d let something slip, in case they’d say “oh she came from ...named School...”. But in England there was no one watching you, no one knows anything about me. ...(I was)... always told by nuns “you are the rubbish of Ireland”. ... In England nobody knows me....

It is of note that 56 female witnesses were in non-manual occupations compared with 29 male witnesses. Twenty two (22) female witnesses and seven male witnesses reported having completed university degrees as mature students and were in different professional occupations. Twenty five (25) witnesses, 16 male and nine female, were employed in senior managerial or skilled technical occupations for which they had received specialised training. I left here... (Ireland)... because of...(discrimination)...I was frustrated with Ireland. I said “to hell with this, I’m getting out of this country”. I went to ...(university abroad)... I have never been unemployed... I put Ireland behind.

Most of the 413 male and 378 female witnesses reported stable current accommodation arrangements and almost half the witnesses reported owning their own home. Many witnesses described the importance of having a home to call their own and described the sense of security they felt on achieving this. I had to work to buy my house, my house comes before everything, that’s mine, no-one will take it off me...I will work all the hours until my mortgage is paid. That’s what I learned in ...named School.... What I have is mine...I had no home for so long, I had nothing..., I worked a good bit of overtime to buy a house...I have my privacy and I have my independence, no-one will take that off me.

Homelessness was a reported feature in the earlier years following discharge of 22 of the male witnesses and 40 of the female witnesses who spoke to the Committee. A small number of male witnesses reported ongoing periodic homelessness in recent years. I slept in down and out places where it was really cheap. ... I was thinking would I come back ...(to Ireland)... but you can’t come back, you know nobody. I slept rough because I had nowhere to stay, I used to sleep in the park. I met ...named ex co-resident.... I got a job in ...named establishment... where all the boys used go. But, I had nowhere to stay and I used to be standing up nearly falling asleep during work. I got a place in ...named city... but we ...(former co-residents)... got thrown out of that because we couldn’t pay. I then got a job as a labourer, it was a job, it was just there, nobody asked questions, you didn’t have to fill a form up or anything. I was there for 12 years. ... I felt ashamed, I didn’t want people to know who I was.

Poor mental health was indicated by a constellation of current and debilitating mental health concerns including suicidal thoughts and attempts, depression, alcohol and substance abuse, eating disorders and treatments including psychiatric admission, medication and counselling. One witness gave the following description of the enduring effects of his childhood abuse; I used to sleep rough and I’d have to ask a garage “Can I clean your cars?” I tried to get back my dignity that I lost, I can’t get it back. They broke me, they did...the problem is still there when you wake up. I’m on tablets for the best part of my life, I’m in and out of hospitals, I took overdoses, I tried to hang myself. All the pressure builds up. I’m kinda seeing psychiatrists all my life. Doctor...named psychiatrist...is very good, I talk to her. Counselling was very disturbing for me. I couldn’t take any more of it ...I should not have been on medication all my life. There’s times I sat in my bedroom for 2 to 3 days without coming out.

Alcohol abuse was reported to be a dominant feature in the lives of 307 witnesses (39%), 217 male and 90 female. One hundred and thirty eight (138) of those witnesses reported a history of alcohol abuse combined with suicidal thoughts and attempts. Of the 86 male witnesses who reported having been admitted to psychiatric hospitals for treatment, 63 also reported a history of alcohol abuse. There were 84 female witnesses who reported having been admitted to psychiatric hospitals for treatment, 35 of whom reported a history of alcohol abuse. By 17 or 18 I was an alcoholic. It ...(alcohol)... blocked it off for me, the orphanage ...(Industrial School).... I’ve had 5 operations on my arm and the doctors say it is muscle damage from the beatings, the one with a brush. I have 5 scars ...(scars on arm shown to Commissioners).... I have been in mental hospitals and tried to kill myself. The psychiatrist asked me what am I keeping in my head? I said “I can’t tell, you wouldn’t believe it”. You would be afraid to tell, the fear is still there. I am now in counselling and it took me an awful long time to say it ...(to describe abuse)..., a long time. • I went to England, I think I was about 34, not working, just drifting. I had a job on building sites but lost that through the drinking. I went to a lot of places for the drink, drying out, I’m still attending group therapy. I’m not working at all, I’m on disability because of health problems. I just drink away the day...The doctor says it has to do with what happened...(childhood abuse).

Many of the witnesses with impairments stated that their respective difficulties were the result of either illnesses or injuries in childhood that were neglected while residents in the Schools. Reported physical impairments included partial limb amputation, kidney damage and back injuries that, in one instance, necessitated the use of a wheelchair. Seven witnesses presented medical reports at their hearing that suggested their physical impairments were the result of childhood trauma. Other witnesses gave accounts of receiving medical treatments since they were discharged, including surgery, for conditions that they believed were associated with childhood abuse. I was an outcast because I couldn’t read or write, I couldn’t read because I couldn’t see the blackboard. I was always put back to the back of the class. I could never understand why they did not pick up that I had very bad sight. When I went to ...named city... I asked for my eyes to be tested I went to the eye and ear hospital... and the doctor said to me “where were you until now?” and I told him and he said “they have an awful lot to answer for”. • I have discovered ... from the files, from a year old the ear was weeping ... no treatment. I have a perforated eardrum. When I was an adult it started weeping. They brought me into hospital and they have tried to dry it up, they brought me down to theatre but the doctor said the wall is broken down and surgery could cause more damage. It is constantly at me. ... It drives me scatty ... things annoy me. I don’t know where that came from, whether it is from being slapped all the time.